Former CONI and FIGC President: “It was right to take two Scudetti from Juve, but the one to Inter shouldn`t have been reassigned. Now I`m 85, and I understand why people exclaim, `Is that guy really still alive?` when they hear my name.”
The Hall of Torches, on the first floor of the CONI building, provides a fitting backdrop for this interview. It`s rich in history and sport, much like Franco Carraro`s life. We approach the (remarkably modest) torch from the 1980 Moscow Olympics – the Games where Mennea and Simeoni won gold, but also marked by a boycott. Carraro, who had been CONI president for two years, recalls: “The government had asked us not to go. If I had agreed without upholding the autonomy of sport, I would have had to resign that very day. I believe anyone else in my position would have acted similarly.”
Q: But your friend Craxi didn`t speak to you for a couple of years?
A: “A year and a half. He had a difficult personality… He was under pressure from Helmut Schmidt; Germany, having been reminded by America that their constitution was drafted by the US, decided not to go. Once it became clear that other European countries would participate, the Socialist Chancellor asked his friends for help, including Craxi. I said no to him too, and he didn`t take it well. But how could I tell athletes not to go to the Games if Italy was still building cars in Togliattigrad? It felt very hypocritical to penalize only sports. I found myself against all my friends, those with whom I shared the most political affinity – the very ones who, nine and a half years later, would nominate me as mayor of Rome. Remember the `CAF`? Craxi-Andreotti-Forlani… that was them.”
Q: The sports world responded with 8 golds, 3 silvers, and 4 bronzes.
A: “And there would have been more with athletes from military sports groups. It was painful to leave them behind, but as CONI, we couldn`t do anything. Imagine, there had even been an idea to eliminate them altogether: Interior Minister Rognoni, after the assassination of Aldo Moro, wanted all military forces deployed on the ground due to terrorism; we were seeing one or two deaths a week. But such an intervention would have left us completely exposed. As soon as I was elected CONI president, I went to him with Pescante, and we convinced him by reminding him that the Police at that time didn`t have widespread public support, and medals would bring popularity and consensus. Rognoni, who was a sports enthusiast and had practiced track and field, understood the message well. You know, back then, certain things like the police, the tricolour flag, and nationalism weren`t well-regarded by everyone. Pertini first, and then Ciampi, changed things a bit, partly through sports. The worldwide image of that old gentleman, agitated in the stands like a curva fan at the `82 World Cup, united Italians. Ciampi later taught the country to sing the anthem, so much so that the last time I was elected FIGC president, in 2001, in my inaugural speech, I said: `I hope the players sing the national anthem.` You journalists spent months investigating who would do it, as if I had asked for some wild extravagance…”
Q: What does it feel like to have experienced so many pivotal moments that shaped our country, and beyond?
A: “I`ve been fortunate, I`m privileged because I had two extraordinary parents who taught me French and English and educated me properly. We were never wealthy, but we were comfortable, and compared to others at the starting line, I had a bit of a head start. For this reason, I feel I owe a great deal to life. The future? I think about it for my granddaughter, not for myself. Like everyone, I hope to die healthy. An old director of Gazzetta, Gualtiero Zanetti, used to tell me: `You live like a sick man to die healthy.` It was true! Because I, through no particular merit, only like to drink plain water, have no great passion for food, and never smoked. When you`re young, you start messing with cigarettes to impress girls, but at 16, I was a European water skiing champion, so, let`s say, I didn`t need it…”
Q: Your past as an athlete has rarely been discussed.
A: “I didn`t continue for long; I would have had to give up fun, and I didn`t want to. Then, at the World Championship in Long Beach, California, my ski was stolen. It was unique; we had worked on it for a long time. I was foolish to leave it in storage… I finished seventh.”
Q: We can imagine the anger.
A: “Well, yes, but often if you get angry, you create double the effort… I`m someone who never loses control over serious matters, but for trifles, I get agitated: if I go to a restaurant and they make me wait too long, I get furious. However, when six of my councilors were arrested during my time as Mayor of Rome, or when Judge Castellucci – later convicted by the Perugia Court – wanted to arrest me, I always slept soundly.”
Q: Did you sleep well during Calciopoli as well?
A: “No, it hurt me that people questioned my honesty, perhaps also in light of my resignation as federal president, which was intended to allow the next championship to start without embarrassment. It`s a thought that still causes me pain today, despite being acquitted of everything. But there`s more: I`m left with the bitterness of realizing that everything stemmed from a major political mistake of mine. In 2004, I thought that Bergamo and Pairetto could no longer be referee designators, not because they had done poorly, but because, for me, certain positions need to change periodically. I called Collina, who was due to retire the following year, offering him that role. He considered it for a few days and then told me no; he wanted to continue refereeing. I did nothing further. Years later, on a History Channel show about Calciopoli, I discovered that Collina had told Meani (then AC Milan`s referee liaison), who had then relayed it to the confirmed Bergamo and Pairetto. At that moment, they decided to survive by relying on Moggi. I made a mistake; I should have changed them regardless. But I have a justification.”
Q: Tell us.
A: “In 2004, we faced two very serious and dramatic problems: first, the unfortunate elimination from the European Championship – the `biscotto` game, though the truth is we just played poorly; second, Napoli was on the verge of disappearing. At the Athens Olympics, President Ciampi arrived and wanted to speak with then-CONI head Petrucci and me about the Napoli situation; he was seeking explanations. We couldn`t find anyone to take over the club; it was a disaster! Then De Laurentiis arrived… I confess that ever since, after AC Milan, I root for Napoli.”
Q: Let`s return to 2006.
A: “It`s good that there was an investigation and that the responsible teams were punished. The Scudetti had to be taken from Juve because their executives made mistakes, but the one from 2006 shouldn`t have been reassigned to Inter. Both should have remained unassigned, as per the tradition of the Football Federation.”
Q: That year, we won the World Cup.
A: “And some wrote that we had succeeded despite Blatter`s animosity, so much so that he didn`t hand us the cup. To think that one could win the World Cup with the FIFA president against them seems difficult. The truth is that the quality of players must also be accompanied by the right sports policy, and I had placed Pairetto on the UEFA referee commission and Bergamo on the FIFA one. There`s a proverb that says, `God helps those who help themselves.`”
Q: Speaking of which, what happened at the World Cup in Korea and Japan?
A: “What happened is that we got everything wrong. Trapattoni wasn`t a `do-or-die` coach, and we chose a training camp that was too isolated. I take the blame for that, as federal president. Byron Moreno? He was definitely a home-favoring referee; we were told corruption was widespread in South Korea, and he later had his own issues. That said, if Vieri had put the winning goal in a minute from the end, we wouldn`t even remember the referee`s name.”
Q: Let`s discuss the current state of the National team.
A: “I don`t even want to think about another missed qualification. We will make it. Gattuso? I remember him as a player in the blue jersey; I often went to watch training sessions: he was someone who treated the ball with respect, not casually, and always gave 110%. The problem for me isn`t so much the attachment to the jersey, but rather that all of football is now structured against national teams. Players are constantly playing, and in those few days, you need to create an alchemy that, for reasons I can`t explain, either clicks or doesn`t. At the 2021 Euros, it was there, and in that case, it might have a name: Gianluca Vialli. I have something to reveal about him.”
Q: Please do.
A: “I have an extraordinary opinion of Vialli, and I am grateful to him because, unlike others, he maintained utmost discretion about a meeting we had in October 2002. After the disastrous World Cup in Korea and Japan, Trapattoni`s tenure started very poorly in the qualifiers for the European Championship in Portugal. Discussing it with Giraudo, it emerged that Vialli would be available to coach the National team. I went to meet him in Turin, but unfortunately, the conditions weren`t right. No one ever knew about it; he was a true gentleman.”
Q: Let`s talk about your beloved AC Milan for a moment.
A: “Allegri is a good coach; he knows the spirit of Milan well, and Tare at Lazio has shown his capabilities. Personally, I would be very happy if Galliani also returned; he`s someone who knows everything about football and this club. Scaroni is a person of great quality, but Galliani is part of the club`s history, and at Monza, he proved he`s still sharp. For the fans, it would be an extraordinary boost of enthusiasm.”
Q: What was behind your recent candidacy for the CONI presidency?
A: “Now I can say it with great transparency. Pescante, Petrucci, Gravina, and I were very concerned that there were two opposing teams, completely different from the previous one. It was unfair not to allow Malagò to continue, so we deemed it appropriate to keep Mornati as general secretary. I understood that to ensure the administrative continuity of the entity, I would have to run for president, and I did. Our moral persuasion alone wouldn`t have been enough… A couple of days before the vote, in a conference call, Gravina, Petrucci, and I expressed our position to Malagò and the current president, Buonfiglio, also emphasizing that, legally, the secretary must be an internal CONI appointment: we guaranteed our electoral support by requesting continuity. It seems that things went well and are still going well. As for me, I always knew what the outcome of my candidacy would be, but I couldn`t tell anyone. That`s also why I haven`t given any interviews until now.”
Q: Many have started calling you “The Chair-Hoarder” again. Does that bother you?
A: “Oh no, I`m perfectly aware… I was precocious: president of the water skiing federation at 22, president of AC Milan at 27. I occupied many positions, but I always tried to do my best. It`s legitimate for people to criticize and judge my past. Now I`m 85, and I understand why people exclaim, `Is that guy really still alive?` when they hear my name.”
